The universe is not by chance

[tar]

We will always be the oldest part of the universe, and everywhere we look we will see a younger universe. The farther we look, the younger we will see.

[Kyrisch]

Apr 13, 2010 5:00:37 GMT tar said:

Kyrisch,

Well I have thought about all that. Cyclical universes and such. And it is probably true. But a couple of points. One, the universe that emerges from the big crunch of the previous, is most likely different than that previous one. It has evolved from the previous, and whatever laws of physics, and materials and subtance and energy or whatever that exist in this one, are in a way a result of the previous. There is probably some analogous stuff going on, as with the distruction and creation of stars, where each successive generation of stars has heavier elements, because of the activities of the previous generation. So probably there was not a TAR in the last iteration of the universe, because the stuff required, was being created by the activities of the previous iteration and did not therefore exist yet.

This is not necessarily true. Determinism can break down where space and time do. Also, you have no idea. The things you are saying are wild guesses. The problem with this thread is you keep claiming things with certainty that you cannot have.

So fine, if you define TAR to be you, yourself, in this time, in this universe, obviously there is no other TAR because in order for it to be TAR, it would have to be the entity you are referring to in the same place at the same time. There is only one of those. But that definition is useless because it works for every single speck of matter in the universe. I can just as easily say that my left buttcheek is unique and it is the only buttcheek like it in the universe.

So, if we're going to have this discussion, you have to use a functional definition of uniqueness. Like an entity with the same chemical makeup as yourself. Or even an entity with the same history as yourself. But this falls prey to the conjectures I've been spewing throughout the thread -- what of where cause and effect breaks down? History is meaningless across such boundaries, and it is very clear from present evidence that an event such as this started our universe.