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Post by slamminsam on Dec 17, 2009 2:26:31 GMT
Aha! This thread proves an important point: Humor is of the devil!   As far as who told the Truth in Genesis 3, God told the absolute truth-Adam and Eve did die as a result of their actions, just not right then. God could have just had them die right then, but he let them live a long, full life. Those two got off easy!  Satan told them some truth-he just left out some key details, like the intense suffering we'd go through to be "as gods, knowing good and evil". Lots of thought and wisdom could be gained from studying this. I think the message of Gen. 3 is that trying to be your own god is a bad idea. BTW, master theologian Obi-Wan Kenobi said that some of the most important truths depend upon one's point of view.... |
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naz
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Post by naz on Dec 17, 2009 16:30:18 GMT
Aha! This thread proves an important point: Humor is of the devil! As far as who told the Truth in Genesis 3, God told the absolute truth-Adam and Eve did die as a result of their actions, just not right then. The point being that God told them they would die the very day they ate from it. |
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Post by ydoaPs on Dec 17, 2009 18:03:01 GMT
The real question should be "Why does God hate morals?"
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Post by revnkev on Dec 17, 2009 19:54:40 GMT
How can you be so sure he was not referring to a spiritual death.
Also how would knowledge of good and evil make one moral?
(point from video)
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Post by ydoaPs on Dec 17, 2009 19:58:43 GMT
Also how would knowledge of good and evil make one moral? (point from video) They would be able to choose to do what is right? They would know it is wrong to do wrong? etc. |
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Post by revnkev on Dec 17, 2009 23:30:12 GMT
To know morality is not the same as being moral.
In the garden in the beginning there was only one thing they could do that would not be moral and that was eat of the forbidden fruit. That doesn't justify guy in the video claiming man was without morals. They did have a moral truth they were subjected to. They were spiritually blind to the moral truths and walked above the laws of sin as does a perfect love.
When they ate the fruit they died(spiritually) and there eyes were open to how they fell from the perfect love and were now subjected to the choices of righteousness between good and evil.
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Post by ydoaPs on Dec 18, 2009 0:10:18 GMT
To know morality is not the same as being moral. Knowing morality is a prerequisite for being moral. To be moral is to do the 'right' thing. Really? So, Adam stabbing Eve in the face wouldn't be immoral? Eve having sexual relations with the animals of the garden wouldn't have been immoral? If there was no such thing as good and evil(which goes against the reading of the scripture as the tree is called the tree of the 'knowledge of good and evil' which assumes good and evil already exist), what is the source of good and evil? How did they spring about upon eating of the fruit? In what way? They were without any knowledge of the difference between just actions and unjust actions. It's very clear on that. That DIRECTLY contradicts scripture. Then why were they punished for eating of the fruit? |
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Post by slamminsam on Dec 18, 2009 5:40:42 GMT
This is getting good! ;D
One thing this Scripture seems to teach us is that, even in a good environment, human beings will screw things up and choose evil over good.
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soms
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Post by soms on Dec 18, 2009 16:10:01 GMT
It is getting very interestin indeed. :-) it does make one wonder much though. it eh rather seem that their was some coaxing needed (by a talking snake no less :-)) in order for them to 'so easily choose' the evil ;-) . i would be interested in jewish thought on the meanin of this story (as it was theirs to begin with). looking forward to the return of my google powers...
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naz
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Post by naz on Dec 19, 2009 19:41:17 GMT
How can you be so sure he was not referring to a spiritual death. I can't be. I just see no clues in the text that is what was meant. It seems to be a way to try and get around the problem. |
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naz
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Post by naz on Dec 19, 2009 20:14:21 GMT
Indeed! did the god not set them up? did he not know they would be tempted and give in? maybe not as the OT god does not seem to be omniscient.
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Post by ydoaPs on Dec 20, 2009 0:38:47 GMT
How can you be so sure he was not referring to a spiritual death. I can't be. I Perhaps we should look at what die means in all the other places the phrase 'you shall surely die' is used. That might give a glue. Interesting. |
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naz
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Post by naz on Dec 20, 2009 1:02:52 GMT
Perhaps we should look at what die means in all the other places the phrase 'you shall surely die' is used. That might give a glue. Interesting. I don't know of any place where the concept of "spiritual death" is taught in the OT. I don't believe it forms any part of Jewish belief. Th word used for death always refers to physical death. |
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Post by ydoaPs on Dec 20, 2009 1:36:53 GMT
Perhaps we should look at what die means in all the other places the phrase 'you shall surely die' is used. That might give a glue. Interesting. I don't know of any place where the concept of "spiritual death" is taught in the OT. I don't believe it forms any part of Jewish belief. Th word used for death always refers to physical death. That was kinda my point. |
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