naz
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Post by naz on Nov 28, 2009 16:53:15 GMT
In the garden of Eden story? I think the serpent did. I can't read it any other way.
God said the couple would die "on the day [they] eat thereof". The serpent told them that wasn't true and that instead their eyes would be opened and they would be like God (knowing good and evil).
Does anyone disagree?
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Post by ydoaPs on Nov 28, 2009 17:09:28 GMT
God cannot lie. How do I know? He said so!
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 28, 2009 17:15:47 GMT
Speaking to the Jews who followed him it is reported that Jesus said the following...
Jhn 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
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Post by ydoaPs on Nov 28, 2009 18:29:58 GMT
"There is no truth in him" really stood out for me. That is intriguing since Satan is also said to quote scripture!
On another note, that sounds like something a propogandist would say. I mean, the entire book is trying to support God being the good guy and Satan being the bad guy. However, if one looks at the events said to have happened in the book, a case can be made for the opposite.
Who created evil?
Who killed more people?
What, exactly, did Satan do that is so bad?
etc.
</devil's advocate>
(pun intended)
EDIT: I once got banned at CRAM for asking those questions, as they apparently amount to promoting satanism.
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 28, 2009 18:38:24 GMT
"There is no truth in him" really stood out for me. That is intriguing since Satan is also said to quote scripture! I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan. That's why I am posting it here and not on CARM. |
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Post by ydoaPs on Nov 28, 2009 19:03:00 GMT
"There is no truth in him" really stood out for me. That is intriguing since Satan is also said to quote scripture! I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan.  |
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 28, 2009 19:44:01 GMT
I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan. Edgy, huh? |
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Post by ydoaPs on Nov 28, 2009 19:45:01 GMT
Try that one at CRAM  |
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 28, 2009 19:50:15 GMT
Try that one at CRAM A recipe for instant ban. |
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Diet Coke
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Look at the cute bunny. :)
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Post by Diet Coke on Nov 29, 2009 0:51:31 GMT
"There is no truth in him" really stood out for me. That is intriguing since Satan is also said to quote scripture! I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan. Or a "joke". |
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Post by dahduh on Nov 29, 2009 11:03:22 GMT
I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan. While I would perfectly agree with you that Yahweh has devilish proclivities, I think your interpretation is on rather thin ice. In the same paragraph Jesus says: He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. What I take from this is that the phrase "of your father" and the word "belong" and synonymous, and the latter simply means "your allegiance is with Satan"; not that Yahweh is Satan. |
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 29, 2009 15:55:18 GMT
I think you misunderstand. I am suggesting that Jesus is saying the Jewish god IS Satan. While I would perfectly agree with you that Yahweh has devilish proclivities, I think your interpretation is on rather thin ice. In the same paragraph Jesus says: He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God. What I take from this is that the phrase "of your father" and the word "belong" and synonymous, and the latter simply means "your allegiance is with Satan"; not that Yahweh is Satan. The GoJ is proto-Gnostic. It, together with ideas taken from Paul's writings, forms the basis for Gnostic rejection of YHVH as the true God. In the GoJ it is reported that Jesus says: Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. The premise being that the Jews do not yet know the true God of whom Jesus was sent to reveal knowledge. There is much more from that gospel to back up that idea. |
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Post by ydoaPs on Nov 29, 2009 16:06:41 GMT
While I would perfectly agree with you that Yahweh has devilish proclivities, I think your interpretation is on rather thin ice. In the same paragraph Jesus says: What I take from this is that the phrase "of your father" and the word "belong" and synonymous, and the latter simply means "your allegiance is with Satan"; not that Yahweh is Satan. The GoJ is proto-Gnostic. It, together with ideas taken from Paul's writings, forms the basis for Gnostic rejection of YHVH as the true God. In the GoJ it is reported that Jesus says: Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. The premise being that the Jews do not yet know the true God of whom Jesus was sent to reveal knowledge. There is much more from that gospel to back up that idea. References? |
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naz
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Post by naz on Nov 29, 2009 16:43:38 GMT
The GoJ is proto-Gnostic. It, together with ideas taken from Paul's writings, forms the basis for Gnostic rejection of YHVH as the true God. In the GoJ it is reported that Jesus says: Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. The premise being that the Jews do not yet know the true God of whom Jesus was sent to reveal knowledge. There is much more from that gospel to back up that idea. References? For which statement? These are more or less my own conclusions based on my own research but others have come to similar conclusions. I hope to write more on this at some point. |
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Post by dahduh on Nov 29, 2009 17:23:11 GMT
For which statement? These are more or less my own conclusions based on my own research but others have come to similar conclusions. I hope to write more on this at some point. Hmm. You're going to have to make a strong case; from a purely statistical point of view, considering the number of proto-gods that have been put forward, the a prior odds are that you are wrong. |
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